Memory Safe Languages in Android 13


dang 17d
All: we had a flurry of threads about this all at once, which isn't surprising, but the comments they got were almost all bad (for HN)—cheap and reflexive rather than thoughtful and reflective. We want the latter, not the former*, so please take a moment to reflect before commenting, and if you'd make sure you're up on we'd appreciate that too.


tptacek 17d
In a previous thread, I had this at "more than 10 years, less than 60" (yeah, that's an easy bet to make!). The core driver of the sentence is probably the guidelines 2B1.1 table, which scales sentencing levels by economic losses. She was convicted for something like $140MM in fraudulent losses, which by themselves ask for a 24-level escalation (the table maxes out in the mid-40s).

By the numbers, the court was probably quite lenient here. Not to say that's an unjust outcome; the "lenient" option for sentencing on serious federal felonies is still quite harsh.


I tracked down the prosecutor's sentencing memorandum; they asked for 15 years. So I guess maybe not that lenient.

munk-a 17d
If we're talking about financial damage done this sentencing still feels exceedingly light. We have a real double standard - there are people in jail for longer for possession.

Edit to clarify: My statement is more intended to emphasize how overly punishing possession charges rather than to advocate for draconian charges for all offenses.

shapefrog 17d
She fully embraced the startup grindset, faked it till she made it (she didnt get there) and moved fast and broke things - emulating the heros around her.

In the end she goes to jail for being a bad investment for investors and not for the crime of fucking around with peoples health.

mothsonasloth 17d
This is not the first and won't be the last case of its kind.

The interesting thing politically is if this will be enforced or not, as I am sure there are a lot of Silicon valley founders worrying now. At best they will get some deserved extra scrutiny, at worse will be getting investigated.

I've seen talk about Holmes' political connections, but she surely is too toxic for them to get her a "free pass". She might get relief from somewhere else though?

peter422 17d
"Judge Edward J. Davila ... sentenced Ms. Holmes to 135 months in prison, which is slightly more than 11 years. Ms. Holmes, 38, who plans to appeal the verdict, must report to prison on April 27, 2023.

Federal sentencing guidelines for wire fraud of the size that Ms. Holmes was convicted of recommend 20 years in prison. Ms. Holmes’s lawyers had asked for 18 months of house arrest, while prosecutors sought 15 years and $804 million in restitution for 29 investors."

dhfbshfbu4u3 17d
How long will Elon’s sentence be?
jasonhansel 17d
Interesting to compare this with the ongoing FTX disaster.

I think these two cases are sort of parallels: people assumed that someone was a genius to such an extent that they disregarded any signs of fraud and sought little proof of the assertions being made.

wilsonnb3 17d
I hope everyone learns their lesson from this - only lie to poor people.

Someday we will have to reckon with the fact that SV founder culture encourages this kind of behaviour.

gopled 17d
This guy called it back in 2013:

The whole thread is an interesting read in retrospect, quite a mix of effusiveness and skepticism:

chadlavi 17d
She deserves much harsher than this for the harm she did to real people, which she sadly got off without a scratch for. As far as defrauding rich people, that's basically a public service.

It's not surprising that the one she got got for was the one where she hurt rich people.

Qtips87 17d
In his sentencing statement, Judge Edward Davila said the case was "troubling on so many levels."

"What went wrong? This is sad because Ms. Holmes is brilliant.”

Brilliant of what? Of dressing in black turtleneck and imitating Steve Jobs? Able to lower her voice one octave down?

onlyrealcuzzo 17d
Is it spelled out clearly what exactly Elizabeth Holmes was convicted of committing investor fraud for?

Was it this?

> Holmes admitted on the stand that Theranos was running blood tests on modified third-party machines without telling its business partners and that she added the logos of two pharmaceutical companies to studies that the company sent to investors.

This seems like everyday, standard startup procedure. Was there a lot more?

ktln2 17d
Not familiar with legal issues - can someone explain why Adam Neumann is free but Holmes is in jail? Isn't both committing fraud from investor POV? And is SBF committing the same crime?
impulser_ 17d
So if Martin Shkreli got 7 years for fraud, Elizabeth Holmes got 11 years for fraud. Does this mean SBF is looking at life in prison?

Hard to see why stealing billions of your customers money to spend gambling and buying personal items then lying about it multiple time isn't a bigger crime than what those two were sentenced for.

meltyness 17d
How is a company supposed to fail gracefully?

There's always a touch of dishonesty in these ventures -- it's so-called risk -- but when a company no longer is worth anything, how is that supposed to fail blamelessly?

It's a wonder that "Computer (occupation)"[0] never became a corporation with unions so that we'd have a case study of something that clearly should have gone by the wayside with the advent of technology.

Maybe there are some guidelines for business models that even make sense. Apparently Theranos illustrates that "accusing everyone else of being a lazy liar with stagnant investment" isn't workable either.


Cupertino95014 17d
As I predicted, @mikeyouse and I both owe $10 to charity, per our bet (more than 3 for me, less than 15 for him).

I shall pay, of course. For you, sir, you can either give directly to Lighthouse Ministries (, or if you want to be sure it's tax-deductible, you can give to Martha's Kitchen in San Jose with a note that it's intended for Lighthouse. (They're a tax-exempt in California but their IRS 501(c)(3) hasn't come through yet.) Martha's acts as financial sponsor for them, which has some legal significance I don't quite understand.

ak_111 17d
I don't know who managed to blow their life more. With her intelligence, good looks, connections and charisma she could have easily been a Marissa Mayer 2.0 by hustling 10 times less than she did, if only she played it safe in any of the big tech companies. She could have easily had an 8 digit net worth by time she is 40. Instead she will be spending 11 years in prison.

On the other hand her CFO made 50m by the time he was 30. Now he is going to be penniless spending most of his rest of his life in jail.

For what?

homeland221 17d
Only 11? Gosh she literally faking medical results with death consequence. At least Madoff only con "investment money" of the rich. Holmes literally play millions of poors their lives. Says a lot about gender equality and every American lives equality....guess George said it best....some are more equal than others.
firefoxkekw 17d
11 years for literally putting lives at risk due to medical fraud, forget the money part for a moment. Someone may have lost a love one because of her, maybe it was a few? Hundreds? Who knows. But we are over 8 billion people in this world, do we really need people like this ever having a second chance to life? Medical fraud should be life sentence, at most, give her the opportunity to work from prison for the rest of her life.

This type of people prey on the ingenuous and naive, nothing wrong with being ingenuous but for the rest of us, we should also call out the predators like Holmes and try to keep this predators out of society.

dudeinjapan 16d
8 years for fraud

2 years for theft of Steve Job's wardrobe

1 year for that ridiculous baritone