Dwarf Fortress’ graphical upgrade provides a new way into a wildly wonky game


throwaway22032 12d
The idea here seems to be that it's OK for people to watch hours of TV a day every day.

I find it amusing that they consider TV-watching "the traditional British way". It's the traditional working class British way, sure. It's a status symbol here to _not_ have a TV, or to have a tiny one like 15" in a large room.

The issue is really that doing _anything_ mindlessly is a waste of life. TV, flicky flicky lighty box things like TikTok, and World of Warcraft enable that in exactly the same way.

And yeah, I played years of that shit when I was younger. A complete waste. Am I still here? Sure. Did it have some minor benefits? Sure. Would I recommend it? No, huge waste of time.

There's also an enormous difference here in that older people often can't really do much else. My grandma finds it difficult to read books because her eyesight is going and lots of physical pursuits are out for obvious reasons. Cosying up in front of the TV is comfortable for a woman living out the end of her days.

PaulHoule 12d
Watch out! Over 60's vote and they can defend themselves from your finger wagging and anyone who tries to make them feel uncomfortable.
patall 12d
I would probably prefer if my grandparents (~80) watched TV for 6h a day. Instead, they spend a similar amount of time on their smartphones, reading conspiracy blogs. And recently started to prepare for the imminent doom. Only thing worse would be an elder with dementia that is constantly shopping on amazon...
notacoward 12d
Not just over-60s, and not just TV screens. Yes, there are plenty of people older than I am (at 57) who spend way too much time watching TV. There are also plenty of people right around my age who spend all day listening to NPR or podcasts. Their eyes might not be elsewhere, but their brains sure are. And you know who I most often see actively using their phones while driving? Not the kids, and not the old folks either. It's the 40- and 50-somethings, the tradespeople in pickups and the suburban parents in minivans, flying down the road with their eyes glued to a screen instead where they should be. Entertainment addiction takes many forms, and the author makes a good point that the kids with their phones aren't the only ones who deserve to be taken to task for it.
malfist 12d
The average 65 year old consumes 6 HOURS of TV a day? Jesus. No wonder they have a warped perception of politics. That little fearbox is controlling their lives.
gspencley 12d
My children are adults now, but when they were growing up we wanted them to pursue productive creative endeavours so that they could learn life skills and figure out what they want to do with their lives. Our goal was to help them achieve self-sufficiency so that they could move out and feed themselves.

I'm not 65 yet, but once I am I hope that others will recognize my productive achievements and will leave me the hell alone to do whatever I want to with the rest of my limited time here on earth. If that means sitting on my ass doing nothing - that's my choice and my right.

It's not hypocrisy. A child and a retiree are not even remotely comparable. One is accountable to their parents, the other has likely worked their ass off for decades to earn a bit of down time.

hindsightbias 12d
The “boob tube” was common parlance back in the day, so all those olds got it then.

But we during commute, work and school all day we did not have a phone in front of our face for 8 hours. I was watching a roofing crew awhile back and the number of times someone pulled their phone out was startling.

nonrandomstring 12d
The question is not now much time you spend at a screen, but who is on the other side of it.

Much of the conversation so far concerns time, and the virtues or vices of how we spend it. Not all pastimes are equal. Knitting a jumper, taking a hike, or skateboarding are actions one performs on or in the world. Reading a book is more of an action that the world (the author especially) performs upon you. It is a different frame. Movies and video gaming are somewhere in the middle. Some media forms, such as daytime trash-TV and TiKTok are at the extreme of the passive/receptive frame. It is a pipeline of affect directly to your hypothalamus. Any discussion of harms or benefits must be understood in that light.

mradek 12d
Wasting time is relative. Everyone always has some excuse for it, for why they think it’s okay to burn their brain on TV WoW TikTok whatever.

Just do your thing and live your best life. Unsubscribe from what other people think.

tomcam 12d
> Meanwhile, those aged 65 and over spend just under six hours on average watching TV daily.

Wait people are still watching broadcast TV?

I guess if you're a pensioner in the UK who doesn't have to pay the license it makes sense. Though 6 hours, even of the Beeb, seems a bit nightmarish.

hn_throwaway_99 12d
Such an odd take in my opinion. Just because there isn't a comparative level of concern for older people's excessive screen time doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about younger people's.

Highest suicide rates have traditionally been among the elderly. Is it then a "moral panic" if we are concerned about rising suicide rates in teenagers?

bell-cot 12d
I'm interested in how the over-60s' TV time is being measured.

Why - I know a number of older folks who live alone, and claim that they leave the TV on all day - not to watch it, but as a source of "color noise", giving them a comforting illusion of not being at home all alone.

thenerdhead 12d
What if we just talked about moderation in all things and kept to ourselves?
fleddr 12d
The piece sounds like a petty personal revenge, where it's hard to detect any rational point.

She grew up in a family abusing screen time, centering the TV above anything and anyone. That was very bad, as she readily admits. How then does it make any sense to look away when a similar or worse issue is affecting young people?

Instead of preventing it from happening twice, you focus on "rubbing it in", because two wrongs make a right?

Further, from a pragmatic point of view, the comparison makes zero sense. Nobody cares how much TV the elderly watch because there's little to ruin at this point. They're past their productive years, so it doesn't matter from an economical point of view. For most it won't affect their dating chances or ambition to start a family. It matters little (or at least less) for their health, as they're already in winter.

For young people and society as a whole, these things matter far more. I don't know what the proper regulation (if any) would be for screen time but let's at least establish that the stakes are a 100 times higher compared to an old guy watching a stupid TV quiz.

The nature of the screen time is also incomparable. Digital is far more addictive, radicalizing, privacy-invading and exploitative compared to TV.

thewebcount 12d
While I disliked the tone of the piece, I mostly agree with the sentiment. But this (very bitter) part just made me laugh:

> But please, yes, tell me again about young people and screen time and content and moral decay, and how the mobiles they’re engaging with are somehow a greater risk to their character than their own parents and their own grandparents and the family traditions they hold so dear, such as laughing in your face when you suggest shared family mealtimes around a table, a suggestion which might lead to talking to each other, listening to each other, and being present in that shared moment with each other. Tell me all about it.

This sounds like something my parents would have said. We ate our meal at a table in a room without screens. Nonetheless, my spouse describes the meals I had with my family when we all lived together as “psychological warfare,” and I can’t disagree. When my parents tried to force us all to come together for anything, we laughed in their faces because we hated being together. If that’s the reaction you get from your children, look inward. And if your spouse won’t help you figure it out, then you have at least a partial answer. To this day I avoid interacting with my family as much as possible because my parents couldn’t keep the household under control. They were arbitrary with their punishments, and untrustworthy as far as confiding them with thoughts and feelings. At best nothing would be done about it. At worst, it would come back to bite you later. I didn’t want to talk to people in my family because the result was guaranteed to be extremely painful. I suspect it was the same with the author’s children and husband. It sounds like she did the right thing by getting out.

willhinsa 12d
"Las Vegas pre-COVID"


reference for anyone who doesn't want to click on a tiktok link:


gus_massa 12d
My father used to read the dead-tree newspapers every morning. I'm now reading them online. Is it fair to count that time as an increase of my screen time?

I guess there are some similar examples, like looking for cooking recipes in a book vs online, or paper-encyclopedia vs wikipedia.

softwaredoug 12d
Do as I say, not as I do.

Parents waste time on their phones, so the kids learn to as well. I say this as a parent that struggles to regulate my screen time and my kids.

Putting it on the kids is a form of projection. It’s hard to hold our own shame and feel it. And easier to try and control others behavior.

The better conversation is why do we put so much shame into screentime given the power and ubiquity of computing? The, at best, the extremely marginal causal negative effects of screentime on children’s outcomes? Why don’t we focus on things that actually impact kids outcomes like Adverse Childhood Experiences (abuse, etc)?

Tao3300 12d
I feel like the article started off about one thing and turned into something else.

"Marital family" seems like an unusual way to describe the arrangement, predicting a degree of distance that has nothing to do with TV under the surface.

beardyw 12d
My wife and I are over 70. We live in the UK.

It's fun to generalise, but not always helpful. No, we don't watch anything like 6 hours of TV a day. We have our evening meal, like every meal, at a table. We mostly watch one thing a day on streaming, usually well made fiction. We read news on our phones but never watch it on TV because of all the uninformed comment.

Maybe we are not typical, but we do exist.

httpz 12d
30 years later, millennials will be on their smartphones while complaining kids these days never come out of their VR world.
FPGAhacker 12d
I haven’t hit my sixties yet, but it won’t be long now.

Youth is ignorance, and the only cure is getting older. When that happens you will marvel at how much you thought you knew and understood. You will listen or read the next generation making preposterous proclamations about older people and the older generations. Laughable in their certainty. Judging older people and finding them unworthy. Especially family. You may try to convey to the younger generation how you were just like them once, trying to shortcut the wisdom of age for them.

But there are no shortcuts. There is no easy way. So we can watch and reflect, those older than us probably have the same thoughts about us. Those ignorant 60 year olds think they know everything. Wait till they hit 90.

darepublic 12d
Young people are developing for the future whereas older people are not. If I am in the twilight of my life my comfort and ease of life factors more importantly because I'm on an irreversible decline. A young person on the other hand risks their future by watching too much
fuzzfactor 11d
I think some people are just more hypnotically attracted to the action occurring in their field of vision, and moving pictures stimulate this primal response.

Emotional response to artificial visual stimuli was first exaggerated for some with the arrival of silent movies, made more realistic (even when complete fantasy) with talkies and then color film.

Television turned this from a designated entertainment event into an everyday occurrence in the home when it was still black & white, then color TV upped the ante, but until cable came along nobody imagined that anybody would want to have it turned on all the time. The few broadcast channels in any one market used to sign off after a certain time at night then not resume programming until the next morning. There were 13 VHF channels but no market had anywhere near that number to choose from within radio range.

Then come personal style computers which were powered on all the time at the office, even if they were not that interesting people got accustomed to it, and did some of the same thing when they got more popular for the home. Laptops took the screen on the road and internet made it more interesting on a 24/7 basis, wifi broadened that and more powerful smartphones put it over the top everywhere.

Each step of the way focusing on smaller-than-realistic horizons.